tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7097582791935798204.post1520035328720158821..comments2023-08-02T20:59:22.523+02:00Comments on dianoigo: biblical studies, theology, church history and more: Christadelphians, Tradition, and IrenaeusTomhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16671380367019506667noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7097582791935798204.post-27521939913086648922014-06-13T09:12:02.773+02:002014-06-13T09:12:02.773+02:00Anonymous, thanks for level headed comment it is u...Anonymous, thanks for level headed comment it is usually not a common thing for CD's, they usually regard themselves above all, in the truth and all others are unbelievers. Christians and CD's differ in interpreting the bible especially where Christ's identity is concerned, but for most CD's to claim that they will be taken to Mt. Sinai where there will be a judgement for them and worthy will receive eternal life from Jesus and they will be rulers in the kingdom is hard to swallow. Yes you are right, CD doctrine is not vital for salvation, it is hard to understand that Mr. J.Thomas was moved by God's spirit to rediscover the truth. One man all by himself did find the truth, only to find that he copied other writers books ( Eliot and Granville Penn) and published them as original and authentic. So for a man who has discovered the truth we find that he lied to his people. Many end time prophesies made by JT, RR and other CD's that failed. CD's are not perfect, they are like mainstream Christians with many flows, but most believe that they alone hold the truth. I find that there is some good and level headed CD's but very few. I find your comments are realistic, thanks for that.EJKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7097582791935798204.post-65773184346338275252013-10-08T15:00:03.961+02:002013-10-08T15:00:03.961+02:00Hi Tom, I just found your blog and as you are aski...Hi Tom, I just found your blog and as you are asking questions I thought I might respond to some of the points you have raised. First as a Christadelphian (though admittedly not the most orthodox) I have to say that I do not believe and would never say that Christadelphian doctrine is vital for salvation. I know this would be upsetting for members of my church and might not gel with your experience but it is a ridiculous claim. Faith is however vital and the passage you refer to in Matt 16 is Jesus saying to Peter that the church is founded on the belief that Jesus is the Christ the son of the living God. In my view this counters any claim for the trinitarian view but whatever. Why be a Christadelphian? Because to have faith means to ask questions and to challenge and doubt and try to understand but it also means to love and share and be joined with fellow believers. There is no such thing as a single christian (or a christadelphian) to fully practice our beliefs requires a community this can either be in terms of a catholic universal church such as the one Iraneaus was trying to establish or in protestant/heretic terms as a brotherhood of individual believers. We join with the churches whose understanding most closely corresponds to our own understanding and best allows us to practice our belief in God - this is I think true for all believers - I do believe Jesus is the Christ I do not believe in an immortal soul or a devil so I worship in a christadelphian church - remember how the disciples came to Christ saying they stopped one who was casting out demons in Jesus name because he was not one of them. Jesus response is to say that anyone who does good in his name is a legitimate disciple. That is where Ireneaus was wrong. That is where all orthodoxies are wrong (Christadelphian, Catholic, Lutheran, Waldensian etc.) and it didn't start in Paul's day or in the second century it started before Jesus was even crucified. <br /><br />As to evidence that my beliefs date back to the time of Christ I think they do but have never really sweated it - it is human nature to consolidate power and Christadelphian and other millinerian beliefs are always anti-authoritarian. It might be helpful to think of it as an underground stream that only occasionally bubbles to the surface in different forms and with different emphasis. (Before he was excommunicated Arius was the most popular preacher in Rome. The diggers and the ranters would certainly not have been invited into a twentieth century christadelphian meeting but would have gone to the stake with them. There is a history there but it is not mainstream.) The devil thing is a tricky one but technically has nothing to do with individual salvation - there is no scriptural support that the devil tempts people to sin so even if there are fallen angels, monsters, succubi, etc. what has that to do with you or I. Either I belong to the tradition of the disciples or to the tradition of the anonymous guy casting out demons in Jesus' name but either way I feel pretty secure. <br /><br />Jacob King (Sorry I have to post as anonymous but none of my accounts match your blog service. I will like your post to tumblr so you can trace me if you want. Also sorry I went on a bit I have been collecting my own thoughts around this issue lately and your post caught my eye. Interesting as it is past is the past, over and done it is better to look to the future.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7097582791935798204.post-30518269839028857422013-09-26T08:26:35.198+02:002013-09-26T08:26:35.198+02:00Jim, thanks for your comments. It is not preposter...Jim, thanks for your comments. It is not preposterous to me that my parents might have had the truth. It was a difficult decision to turn from the teachings in which I was raised, but I had to obey the Word of God according to my understanding.<br /><br />The apostasy of which Paul speaks in Gal. 3:1 is that of the Judaizers. As for the heretics whom Irenaeus opposed, he is quite clear in his writings about what they believed, and it bears absolutely no resemblance to Christadelphians.<br /><br />Christadelphians have so far not produced evidence of any group with a system of doctrine that would be acceptable as a basis of fellowship with them, prior to the 17th century A.D. If Christadelphian doctrine is necessary for salvation, this means as far as we know there was no body of Christ between the 2nd and 17th centuries. How do Jesus' promises in Matt. 16:18 and 28:20 sound in that case?Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16671380367019506667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7097582791935798204.post-50795044813281119772013-09-26T03:29:48.971+02:002013-09-26T03:29:48.971+02:00Tom, why is it so proposterous that your parents m...Tom, why is it so proposterous that your parents might of had the truth? Irenaeus was nearly 100 years removed from the Apostles who had the Holy Spirit. Paul in his day experienced the apostacy. Ga 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? As far as the heretics are concerned; wasn't it the Catholic Church that pursecuted the heretics. For all we know, they may have been the ones with the truth.<br />Jim Burns, Westerly ChristadelphiansAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17818506473872684526noreply@blogger.com